. it is mainly defense and training issues. it gets to the difference here between mr. affleck, the training of the second battalion until after there is a commitment from the congolese government to reform, versus dr. frazer's comments and mr. carafano's comments about focusing on the training. maybe it is the mission you think ought to be delayed current the other is the commitment to security reform. perhaps a good start by commenting, do you think we ought to move forward without a commitment to reform? mr. affleck, why is it important to you to have that reform first before moving forward? dr. frazer? >> i think we should move 4 right away. -- forward right away. the amount of time that it takes us to actually do a training mission, the lead time that is necessary, interagency work is necessary, it can be a very long time after the decision is made before we are actually doing that training mission. i do not think we should delay. i do not think it is a matter of policy, that we should use this issue, traded italian that can protect civilian lives -- we should not hold that up. -- creat